The Dr. Jeff Show Ep. 71 – Abby Johnson

Episode 71: Summary & Transcript

Disclaimer: Please note that this is an automatically generated transcript. Although the transcription is largely accurate, it may be incomplete or inaccurate in some cases due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.

Episode Summary

In this episode of the Dr. Jeff Show, host Dr. Jeff interviews Abby Johnson, a former Planned Parenthood clinic director who became a major pro-life advocate after experiencing a dramatic transformation. Johnson worked at Planned Parenthood for eight years, rising to become a clinic director while believing she was helping women through contraception, STD treatment, and education. However, during her final year, Johnson discovered the organization’s true nature. She was asked to assist in an ultrasound-guided abortion of a 13-week-old fetus, where she witnessed the unborn child fight and struggle for his life against the abortion instruments.

After struggling for a week to justify what she had seen, Johnson resigned and eventually founded the organization “And Then There Were None,” which has helped over 620 abortion workers leave the industry. The conversation also covers practical advice for medical students facing pro-abortion professors, with Johnson recommending strategic approaches to maintaining pro-life convictions while protecting academic standing, and Johnson’s new book Fierce Mercy.

Episode Transcript

Ryan Dobson (00:00):
Hi everyone. Ryan Dobson here for the Dr. Jeff Show. Summit camps are in full swing and kids are having a blast. In fact, my own son Lincoln is attending right now. There are so many kids who want to go to camp at Summit, but they just need a little help. A generous donor has agreed to match every donation to the Summit summer programs. Will you help a child learn the foundations of a Christian worldview at Summit? Donate online at summit.org/match and every tax-free donation will be doubled. Again, you can find that at summit.org/match. God bless, and let’s join the Dr. Jeff Show.

Dr. Jeff Myers (00:40):
Hey everyone. Welcome to the Dr. Jeff Show podcast. This show’s available on Apple, Google, Spotify, Edifi, Liftable, or wherever you get your podcast. If you like the show, would you take a moment to review it? Your reviews help more people find out about it. And we want more people to find out about it because every week we’re meeting thought leaders who demonstrate that our worldview changes everything.

I am really excited about today’s show. I’m welcoming a woman who’s experienced a radical shift from being a Planned Parenthood clinic director to being a major pro- life advocate. Her organization is called And Then There Were None. And she has helped over 630 abortion workers leave the abortion industry. This is an unbelievable story, not only about her coming to be involved in the pro- life movement, but also her focus on mercy and how to experience God’s mercy in our own lives. Please welcome Abby Johnson to the show. Abby Johnson, welcome onto the Dr. Jeff Show.

Abby Johnson (01:43):
Thank you so much for having me on.

Dr. Jeff Myers (01:45):
I’m looking forward to our conversation. My wife, Stephanie, and I loved watching the movie Unplanned. I shouldn’t say we loved it. It was a powerful movie. Very difficult to watch.

(01:55):
And both of us have experiences in our lives. Stephanie was born through a mom who refused to take her parents’ advice to get an abortion and an unplanned pregnancy. And in college, I got my girlfriend pregnant and we decided to get an abortion, which is something that ruined our relationship and created a lot of regret.

And that I think God’s forgiven me and we’ve used that story, but the people who listen to the podcast are familiar with that. So they know when we’re thinking about this issue, it’s very personal as well as something that our whole nation is getting ready to go through as the Dobbs case is released. So anyway, thank you for your work and thanks for being on the show today.

Abby Johnson (02:40):
Of course. Yeah. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Jeff Myers (02:42):
Tell us a little bit of your story for those who didn’t see the movie or are still trying to connect all of the dots. Tell us a little of your story about Planned Parenthood because I think a lot of our students are on college campuses where Planned Parenthood is seen as kind of a cool place. You go there, you get contraceptives, make sure you don’t have a sexually transmitted disease or whatever, and they don’t really grasp what this industry is all about.

Abby Johnson (03:09):
Yeah. So I was in college whenever I first started getting involved with Planned Parenthood. I was the same. I didn’t know, really, anything about them. I had grown up in a Southern Baptist Christian home. I remember my parents saying that we were pro-life. They weren’t activists in any way, shape, or form. We didn’t go to the March for Life. We didn’t do anything at pregnancy centers or whatever. It was just sort of something we said. I didn’t hear about abortion in my church or anything like that.

So when I was in college, I met this woman with Planned Parenthood and she was talking about feminism and women’s empowerment and all of these things that were really foreign to me. And they were just very foreign concepts to me. And it sounded like it made sense. And so I started volunteering and then eventually graduated college, got a job there.

(04:20):
They paid me well, started getting promoted. And I love what I did. I really believed that I was helping women. I really believed that the same thing, like you just said, like, oh, we’re here. Yeah, we do abortions, but we’re really here to prevent abortion. We’re really here to provide contraception so that people don’t get pregnant. We’re really here to help people get rid of STDs. We’re really here to educate people. That was really what I believed for the first few years I worked there.

It really wasn’t until my last year. And I had been a clinic director for a while. My last year at the clinics was my eighth year at the clinic. I was a director. I was now really high up in the organization. I’m going to all of the national meetings. I’m going to all of the NARAL meetings, which is another abortion advocacy group, going to all their national meetings.

(05:37):
I’m on these committees and doing all this stuff. And so I’m sort of seeing how the sausage is made, right? Like can they say? Yeah. And that was when I really started, I remember thinking, okay, is this organization changing? Is Planned Parenthood changing or is it just that this is what we’ve been about all along, but now I’m just so high up I’m finally seeing it. And I realize now it was the latter. We had always been this way. It was just that I wasn’t seeing behind the curtain and now I was finally seeing behind the curtain. And so what I saw.

Dr. Jeff Myers (06:26):
We’ve got to dig into that because I think this is a very attractive curtain for a lot of people. I mean, planned parenthood as opposed to unplanned parenthood, irresponsible parenthood.

Abby Johnson (06:39):
Just the name. Yeah, just the name.

Dr. Jeff Myers (06:42):
Yeah. So if you’re going to be a parent, you want to be a parent on purpose and you want to be a purposeful parent and all of that. So when the curtain was pulled back, what were you seeing that a person just driving by it on the street wouldn’t ever think about?

Abby Johnson (06:59):
I mean, we were abortion sales people. And people said, how do you sell an abortion? Well, I mean, it’s pretty simple actually. You get a woman who comes into your clinic and she is not knowing what she wants to do. She’s coming to you because she’s just had a positive pregnancy test or 12 because she’s taken so many and she’s like, “I can’t believe I’m pregnant.” She comes to you and she says, “I don’t know what to do. I got birth control from you guys. So I thought I was good, right?”

Dr. Jeff Myers (07:46):
Yeah.

Abby Johnson (07:48):
But now it’s failed me, which Planned Parenthood knows. That is part of the business plan. According to their own statistics, 54% of women who have abortions were using contraception at the time they got pregnant.

Dr. Jeff Myers (08:06):
Wow.

Abby Johnson (08:06):
Okay?

Dr. Jeff Myers (08:07):
Yeah.

Abby Johnson (08:08):
So the answer’s not more birth control. The answer is actually more self-control. But self-control doesn’t sell. Birth control does. They make money off of that. So these women, they got birth control from us. The birth control failed in more than half the cases. It failed. So they’re coming into us now saying, “I was trying to be responsible. I was trying to do the right thing and now I’m pregnant. What do I do? I’m in a crisis.” And we say, “No problem. We have the answer to your crisis and we have a discount program because Warren Buffett will pay for 25% of your abortion. So your abortion is only $300.” Now that was in the state of Texas.

Now in some states, like Colorado, like California, like New Hampshire, like New York, the state will pay for your abortion. But in Texas, it’s only $300. Warren Buffett’s going to pay the other 25% and you give me $300 and I am going to make this big, big problem, probably the biggest problem, the biggest crisis you’ve ever had in your life, I’m going to make it disappear like that.

Dr. Jeff Myers (09:33):
Wow.

Abby Johnson (09:33):
And you’ll never think about it again. You’ll never think about this again. It’s nothing. It’s not a baby. It’s just cells. It’s nothing. And we’re going to take care of this problem for you. Can you come back in a few days? And they go, “Oh my gosh, thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah, I’ll give you $300.”

And we promise them something that is a lie for many women. We promise them that they will never think about this abortion again, that they will never think about their baby again. Number one, that’s a lie. Most women do think about this later in life again. Number two, we promise them that it’s just cells, that it’s nothing more than just cells, which is a lie. Every woman that has an abortion is taking the life of a human being with a heartbeat, right?

Dr. Jeff Myers (10:36):
Yeah.

Abby Johnson (10:36):
That’s a lie. And we tell them that no woman ever regrets her abortion, which is a lie, but they need to believe us because they’re in a time of crisis, we’re the ones wearing scrubs, even if we’re actually not medical professionals, right? We’re still wearing the scrubs. We’re still the ones who are in authority. And so they believe us. They give us the money, they have the abortion, they leave, and 50% of them will come back again for another abortion.

Dr. Jeff Myers (11:20):
Another abortion. Wow.

Abby Johnson (11:22):
And so it’s just, it is an industry. When I say the abortion industry, I do mean it is an industry. It is a billion dollar industry. It is not charitable. They’re not this benefactor to the masses. We became salespeople. We had a quota that we had to meet.

Dr. Jeff Myers (11:50):
A quota of abortions?

Abby Johnson (11:51):
Abortions, a certain number of abortions that we had to sell every month. We had a whiteboard, like a dry erase board in our staff break room. And every week, my job as the director was to go in and update the numbers for how many abortions we had sold week to week and how many more abortions we had to sell in order to meet our quota. I mean, it’s sick. They are purveyors of death.

And so it’s not this idea that we’re trying to prevent abortion or we’re trying to reduce the number of abortions. I mean, that’s a lie that they said many years ago that a lot of people fell for. A lot of people bought that lie because it sounded more palatable, but it’s just not the truth.

Dr. Jeff Myers (12:56):
So somebody on a college campus comes in, they get contraceptives, they feel like, “Okay, I’m good. As long as I use these contraceptives, I can have sex as often as I want with whoever I want.” The failure rate is enormously high and Planned Parenthood is giving all of this out. It’s a perverse way of giving samples at Costco. You get somebody hooked on coming back to solve their problems. Now, at some point along the way, you came to the realization that this is sick, this is wrong. Tell us a little bit of what happened.

Abby Johnson (13:41):
Yeah. So there had been a lot of things that had been going on in that last year, but I had been justifying my career and my existence with Planned Parenthood for so long. I think it had become just sort of easy for me to say, to overlook things. So even I would see something that would bother me and I would go, “Okay, well, I can make an excuse for that, or I can make an excuse for this.”

So I just continued to make all of these excuses for so long, but it was starting to bother me in that last year of my employment with them. And then I was finally asked to come in and assist during an ultrasound guided abortion procedure, which is not common. Ultrasound is not typically used during the abortion procedure.

(14:45):
But we had a visiting physician, he was going to do things differently and I came in to assist to hold the ultrasound probe in place during that abortion procedure. And we did the measurement. We found out that she was 13 weeks along in her pregnancy. By 13 weeks, everything is fully formed on an unborn child.

And I watched really just in shock as this 13 week old baby fought and struggled for his life against the abortion instruments. And then people ask, “Eight years, gosh, it was so long. Why didn’t you see it before? Why did it take you so long?” And I don’t really have a great answer for that, except that it’s all in God’s timing. I mean, I had to have eyes to see.

(15:44):
And I think it just took that long for me to finally be open to what he needed me and wanted me to see in that moment. And that was when I really, I knew, okay. And I did try. In the first few days, I didn’t immediately leave. It took me a week to leave. In the first few days after seeing that, I really tried to make that okay, what I had seen. I was like, “Okay, well, maybe that baby wasn’t really trying to get away from the instruments. Maybe it was something else.”

I kept trying to justify it in my mind, but I just couldn’t get that image out of my head and I knew there was no justifying it and I knew there was nothing that could make that right. I knew there was nothing that could make that okay. And so I finally was like, “No, I have to leave.” And so I put in my resignation and left.

Dr. Jeff Myers (16:57):
Wow. How do doctors, I mean, the doctors watching this in order to perform the abortion, what’s going through her mind or his mind?

Abby Johnson (17:10):
I mean…

Dr. Jeff Myers (17:11):
Have you talked to these folks and asked them, “What the heck?”

Abby Johnson (17:17):
Yeah, I mean, we do, so I run a ministry called And Then There Were None, and we get abortion clinic workers, nurses, all different kinds of people out of the abortion industry, and we’ve helped over 620 leave. And we’ve helped seven full-time abortion doctors actually leave their jobs. And we talked to them. There have been quite a few abortion doctors leave over the past few years, and we talked to them about just sort of their state of mind, and what it was like working in an abortion clinic and being an abortion doctor.

And I think for a lot of, and this is not just abortion doctors, but I think this is just sort of in the medical field in general. I think a lot of times they become very desensitized just to their environment, right? I mean, if you just think about the medical field in general, I mean, a doctor who works in the ER, I mean, they’re seeing somebody with their arm cut off or something stuck in their screwdriver, stuck in their eyeball or just gross stuff.

(18:26):
And so I think in a sense, I think for a lot of doctors as they go through their rotations and med school and things like that, I think a lot of times they become just desensitized to the things that they see day in and day out. And I think that is part of it, just sort of that desensitization that happens.

I think another part of it too is that in med school, a lot of our physicians, a lot of these medical students are being really, honestly, brainwashed into believing that the only patient that matters is the woman in front of them. So the patient in the womb, that baby in the womb doesn’t matter. And the reason that that patient doesn’t matter is because if you don’t provide abortion care to that woman, then she is going to go to a back alley doctor, like what happened before Roe v. Wade.

(19:22):
And that woman is going to die. And so they’ve been brainwashed by these liberal pro-abortion professors to believe that that woman standing in front of them is the only life that matters. And so they become desensitized to the life in the womb, and they sort of have to separate that life in the womb from this mother standing in front of them.

(19:56):
And what’s really interesting though is there are these doctors who are, some of them maternal fetal medicine doctors. So these are the same doctors that operate on children in the womb, and some of them are actually abortionists as well.

Dr. Jeff Myers (20:12):
Wow.

Abby Johnson (20:13):
That is a very strange sort of, I don’t know, some mental gymnastics that have to take place there in order to be one day performing surgery on a baby to correct spina bifida and the next day aborting a baby that has spina bifida because it has spina bifida.That’s got to be some crazy justifications there.

Dr. Jeff Myers (20:41):
Well, your explanation I think makes sense of a lot of things. I can easily imagine if you were a medical doctor and you have a patient die, you don’t go home and say, “Gosh, I had a guy die today and I had to talk to his wife and now I’m going to be up all night thinking about this.” You’d never be able to carry out your job if you personally involved yourself at the emotional level. But I’m curious, I’m sure you’ve had medical students say, “Okay, I get it. I’m pro-life here, but what am I going to do in my class? What am I going to say to that professor?” How do you help them?

Abby Johnson (21:19):
Yeah, we have had that before and we are ready and willing to fight for these students. So we have had medical students that part of their rotation involved working at a Planned Parenthood or part of their rotation involved abortion care and they have contacted us and have said, “I absolutely do not want to do this. It goes against my conscience.” And the good thing is that conscience protections do still exist in our country for medical providers.

And so we are able to, part of our legal team is we have partnered with the Thomas Moore Society and they have attorneys in all 50 states. And if any medical student is being told or forced or coerced into providing care that violates their conscience, all they need to do is contact us or contact the Thomas Moore Society and they are ready and willing to take on their case and defend them. We have been successful 100% of the time.

Dr. Jeff Myers (22:33):
Wow. Wow. Well, that’s a relief for a lot of the students I know that I work with here at Summit Ministries who are going into the field of medicine. Is there anything they should be saying or doing in a class when the topic of abortion comes up? Most of the professors my students are telling me about, virtually all of them favor abortion on demand, really even abortion without any limits whatsoever. In fact, the theoretical discussions in some of the ethics departments revolve around when a person becomes human and it’s probably not until they’re a toddler kind of thing. Give some guidance to that student who’s in that tough situation.

Abby Johnson (23:18):
Yeah. I mean, I think it kind of depends. I mean, I have students reach out to me and they say, “I have a professor who is very, very liberal, who is very pro-abortion. He or she is making her views very known in the classroom. I want to stand up. I want to write my paper about this or something like that. I am concerned that she will give me a failing grade if I do X, Y, and Z.” I’m tempted to be the person who says, “Do it anyway and fight it out later.”

But I’m also a person who is conscious. I have my doctorate and I am always conscious of my grades and as someone who, education is very important to me and always has been. I also, sometimes a fight is worth it and sometimes a fight is not. And as a parent of eight children, I am someone who always says, “Pick your battles wisely.” And so sometimes in our classrooms, a fight is worth having.

(24:53):
And sometimes our professors may say to us, “You know what? And you are free to write your paper on whatever you wish to, as long as you can back up what you’re saying.” And I feel like that is a great opportunity for you to talk about abortion, make sure you source it completely and thoroughly and whatever grade you get, if you can defend, if she gives you a C but you can defend it, then maybe she’ll give you an A, right?

But if you have a professor that is just on a tear and this is a class you need and you think, “If I write this paper, she’s probably going to fail me and you’re working full time and you just don’t really have a fight, you just don’t have time for a fight to go to the dean and all this kind of stuff, maybe just don’t.”

Maybe this just isn’t a class that you want to pick that battle in. Maybe instead, maybe you spend that extra time that you do have instead of having to fight with your professor and go to the dean’s office, maybe you volunteer at your local pregnancy center, or maybe you spend that extra time volunteering at your students for life group.

(26:09):
So I’m always one that’s down for a fight, but I also understand that there’s an appropriate time, an appropriate place. And sometimes there are unfortunately people that are in authority that have a stranglehold on our grades and our graduation and things like that. And I just think that we have to be pragmatists in some situations.

Dr. Jeff Myers (26:38):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, that’s really good counsel. You don’t want to pick every battle. You want to pick the battles that are going to matter in the overall war.

Abby Johnson (26:50):
And you can’t win them all. It’s tricky. Sometimes you can gauge. I mean, sometimes if your professor says something that’s just wildly just crazy and off the wall about abortion and you have something that you know you can cite and you’re like, “That’s insane. I’m going to say something.” And you raise your hand and sometimes you can sort of gauge how your professor’s going to react or how she would grade a paper or whatever based on if you sort of rebuff her and you say, “That’s not true, what you just said is not true according to X, Y, and Z, this is actually the truth.”

If she gets really huffy about it and just really angry about it, you can sort of guarantee that maybe that’s not the bear that you want to poke, but if she says, “Oh, well, okay, I didn’t know that. Thank you for bringing that to my attention,” whatever. And she sort of backs down, then that may be something that you may be willing to pursue.

Dr. Jeff Myers (27:57):
Yeah. Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. That’s solid. That’s good. That’s such good advice. I can imagine a lot of students feeling a sense of, okay, I can work hard to understand this issue to be fully pro- life, but I don’t have to, necessarily, feel like every time somebody says anything, I have to jump in there and do it. And if they are going on to advanced medical training, they know there are some resources there to help them maintain a clear conscience.

Abby Johnson (28:28):
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And there is a group called FACTS, F-A-C-T-S, and they are a pro-life medical group that’s run by Dr. Marguerite Dwayne, and she specifically works with medical residents and medical students to help educate them on pro-life medicine and to be an advocate for them in medical school. So if somebody’s in medical school or they’re looking to go into medical school, FACTS is a really great resource for them.

Dr. Jeff Myers (29:04):
Okay, perfect. Yeah. We’ll put that in the show notes.That’s huge. I know our time is running short, Abby, but I’m really thankful for this. This is exactly the kind of help that I know people are looking for and it’s shocking to hear everything that you’ve said about Planned Parenthood and we’re going to also mention the movie and the book and so forth in the show notes so that people can find that.

But you’ve got a new project that our producer Dave was telling me about that I haven’t actually seen the book yet, but it just sounded incredible, which is Fierce Mercy. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Because I have a feeling that’s something that a lot of people who are watching and listening right now will want to hear about in order. Yeah.

Abby Johnson (29:45):
So that’s my new book, Fierce Mercy. And I felt like I wanted to write something that was more personal. The first two books I wrote were really just heavy on abortion and my story in and out of the abortion industry.

(30:11):
So stories about abortion. I really wanted to write something that was more personal. I really wanted to write something that was for not just pro- life people, but really for any Christian that was just sort of Christian living. And we live in such divisive times right now and such polarizing times. And one of the questions I get a lot from people is just, how do I love somebody that I just don’t love? How do I love somebody that’s really just unlovable right now in my life?

And I feel like that’s sort of the ministry that I do, like working with people who work in the abortion industry and a lot of the people that we work with every day are people that used to send us letters that were riddled with cuss words that were like, “I’m never going to need your services. I hate you.”

(31:11):
And then eventually they reach out to us and they’re like, “Actually, can you help me? I want to leave.” And so people were like, “How did you love them? How did you love them out? How did you keep reaching out to them when they’re flipping you off or whatever?” And so I thought, how do I do that? How do we do that? And so I thought, I’m going to put that in a book. And I felt like now was a really good time to put that out there.

And I think how does God do that for us? Because we’re a turd sometimes. And he just keeps loving us over and over and over again. He just keeps giving us that fierce mercy that we definitely don’t deserve, but he just keeps giving it to us. And so I put it in a book. It’s definitely a more personal book.

(31:58):
I talk about being a mom. I talk about being a mom of eight. I talk about our adoption journey with our son, Jude. And so I think it’s a great book. I think it’s something that people will like. It’s funny. And just talk about loving people, just sort of where they are.

Dr. Jeff Myers (32:20):
Yeah. Those two words, fierce and mercy, I’ve never heard together before. I mean, obviously we want people to get that book and I can imagine I’m going to be ordering it and I can imagine a number of people that I want to be recommending it to, but what’s that term mean?

Abby Johnson (32:44):
Yeah. For me, I felt like when I came back to Christ, I’d been so apart from him for so long when I was working in the abortion industry. And when I came back to him, people always talk about God as this loving, gentle God. And that’s true. But for me, it didn’t feel like that. God was like a lion. He was coming for me. He was on a tear.

Dr. Jeff Myers (33:36):
Don’t make me come down there.

Abby Johnson (33:38):
I’m coming for you, sister. You’re not getting away from me this time. And so it wasn’t like this, “Abby, I’ve been waiting for you.” It was like this roar. “Lady, you better come back to me. I had been waiting for you. I’ve been calling for you. I’ve been doing everything I can. This was your last chance, lady. You better get back here.” And so it was this lion roaring for me, coming back for me, but this really fierce protector over me.

And I saw this protection, not just over me, but over my family because I had done so much damage in those eight years. I’d done so much damage to my marriage, to my daughter, to my whole family, the relationship between me and my parents, but God was still there as this just roaring lion, like fiercely protecting me and my family and everything I encountered.

(34:45):
So it wasn’t like this gentle meek Lord.That wasn’t how he was for me, but yet even in all of this sin that was dripping all over me, I mean, so much sin, it was done. It was finished. It was over. He was still so merciful, even in this fiercely protective person that he was in my life.

(35:25):
And so it was like the mercy was there. It was like he had roared all that sin right off of me. Right. Wow. I could see. And it was just like I didn’t have any choice. It was almost like I didn’t have any choice but to live in his glory every day. And that’s where I wanted to be. And something that I talk about in fierce mercy that I want people to hear, particularly students, is that God wastes nothing. And that’s something that he reminds me of all the time, that in his mercy, he wastes nothing of our life.

Dr. Jeff Myers (36:18):
Wow.

Abby Johnson (36:18):
He wastes none of our sin. He wasted none of our regret. He wasted none of our past. If we will give it to him, if we will say, “Lord, use this in any way that you can for your glory. Do anything you want to with this. Just have it. He will use every single drop of it.” And that’s what’s so amazing about God. That’s what is so amazing about his mercy is that none of it goes to waste.

Dr. Jeff Myers (37:00):
Yeah. Yeah. That he brings about his purposes and he fights for us, which means he’s fighting against our sin. I talk to our students all the time about this. The reason God is against your sin is because he’s for you.

Abby Johnson (37:15):
And I think that was it. I think another thing why I felt like God was such a fierce presence in my life was that I had been fighting against him for so long and I just realized he doesn’t want to fight against me. He wants to fight for me. And so I just had to lay that down.

Dr. Jeff Myers (37:34):
Yeah, that’s powerful. Well, I just think of the range of our conversation in the last 30 or so minutes, Abby, from what happens at Planned Parenthood to how to respond to it, to what to do if you’re a student, all the way to understanding God’s mercy as a powerful God, not just a tentative God tapping on the door, hoping that he doesn’t wake us up, but a God who’s really God. And I’m really grateful for your investment of time in our show today. Thank you.

Abby Johnson (38:05):
Of course. Thank you so much for having me on.

Dr. Jeff Myers (38:07):
Thank you to my guest today, Abby Johnson, for being on the Dr. Jeff Show. You can find out all about Abby and about her newest book called Fierce Mercy at abbyj.com, A- B-B-Y, the letter J. And you can follow her on Twitter @abbyjohnson. Deuteronomy 30:19 says, “Choose life so that you and your children may live.” Our choices affect us, but they also affect other people.

And if you know someone who is faced with the possibility of abortion, you can come alongside them, let them know about counseling, local crisis pregnancy centers and resources on Abby’s website. You can also direct students there who might be in medical school or in another kind of school where they are facing constant challenges because of a pro-life stance. They can get help there as well. Thank you for joining the show this week. We’ll see you again next week.

Ryan Dobson (39:03):
Thanks for listening to the Dr. Jeff Show. And don’t forget, you can help a child attend Summit summer session by going to summit.org/match. All your donations that are tax deductible will be doubled. God bless, have a great week, and we’ll see you next time for another Dr. Jeff Show.

Dr. Jeff Myers (39:21):
Listeners, I want you to know that our podcast is on Edifi, which is a truly powerful app that brings together thousands of the best Christian podcasts in one place. For your listening enjoyment, you can download it at edifi.app. Be sure to share this show if you have enjoyed listening to it and leave a review, if you would, on the site where you download the show, that helps more people know about the Dr. Jeff Show, and I look forward to seeing you next week.